Why The 357 SIG Cartridge Is Catching On

I do not claim to be an expert, although I do rely on some expert sources. My 357 SIG site was created to share my test results and provide information from applicable sources that I’m aware of. A main purpose of my site is to show that the new 357 SIG cartridge does indeed have merit as a new modern cartridge. If you visit a 1911 site, they will rave about 1911's. If you visit a Glock site they rave about Glocks; ditto with SIG web sites, etc. I believe most folks understand what specialty sites are for. Should you have constructive comments, corrections, and/or 357 SIG information to share, please contact me. That being said, "Enjoy".

Latest Update: 02/26/03

I’d like to discuss some excellent information from the www.ammolab.com forum group. This ammolab site specializes in testing ammo and is one of the top 9 firearms sites on the planet:

He has tested several thousand rounds of the usual 9, 40, 45, etc. When he tested the 357 Sig Winchester Ranger and Remington Golden Saber ammo, it did something only the 10mm Silvertip has been able to do. Both of these rounds cracked the top plate that holds the gelatin blocks in place during testing. It’s obvious that these 357 Sig rounds dump more energy into 12 – 14 inches of gelatin than most other rounds he has tested.

When he reinforced the top plates, the same two 357 Sig rounds mentioned above then cracked the lower plate. The best 9mm loads, such as the Ranger 127gr +P+ barely created a ripple in the gelatin in comparison.

[A 357 Sig carbine with a 16” barrel does not push a bullet near the dubious and partially out of date magical 2200 fps for energy to supposedly make a difference. Although at 1600 to 1700 fps, the 357 Sig round is absolutely devastating and I will not describe the effects here. At 1325 – 1450, the 357 Sig is downright impressive with duty pistols.  It’s important to not only look at what the bullet did to the gelatin media (penetration, bullet expansion), but what the bullet does during actual impact as well. Both sides of the coin are important and one side will not disappear even though it’s ignored. This is not a vague plea since the bullet impact affect on gelatin can be seen, photographed, and measured.]

As we know, the United States Secret Service, the Department of Public Safety, and the Delaware State Police, to name a few, use the 357 SIG caliber, and the gentleman I’m paraphrasing has contact with a member of the shooting investigation teams of these three agencies.

His contact, an officer, stated that the Texas DPS troopers love the .357 Sig because it has produced the highest fatality rate of violent criminals, much better than anything else they have ever been issued ( including the .45). The 357 Sig has operated at 100% for every single shooting so far.

According to the annual shooting review board files, the 357 Sig is working at 99% for the Delaware State Police, which uses .357 Sig Speer GD ammo.

He also had an opportunity to review the USSS shooting files. They use the Ranger 125 grain load and report it’s the most effective pistol cartridge the USSS has ever been issued. The USSS has had four failures, all with Speer practice ammo. They are now using Winchester clean fire practice ammo.

From testing several thousand rounds of handgun ammunition, he believes that the statement, “Energy Transfer with handguns is a myth”, is only partially accurate. A few handgun rounds such as the 357 SIG caliber, actually transfer noticeable energy to the test medium, which can be seen, photographed, and measured by the distance gelatin blocks are moved, using an equal size and weight of gelatin block for each test. [These facts are observable and verifiable. The long skinny 9mm bullet using the “357 Sig engine” does indeed cause damage that the results of recovered bullets from gelatin cannot completely explain. Some of the more savvy agencies using the 357 Sig cartridge understand this.]

He stated that the .357 Sig is very close to becoming one of the finest auto pistol cartridges ever made.  It works consistently over and over again. Police agencies from coast to coast are switching to it in droves because it truly offers everything that the 9mm +P+ had going for it, plus the penetration of the 147gr 9mm along with the capabilities that the disappointing .40 S&W "wonder cartridge" was supposed to have. In a medium frame/medium sized service pistol it offers everything that the .45acp can in terms of penetration and "stopping power" but it does it in a smaller package.

[Let’s look at a .40 and 357 Sig loading of somewhat equivalent ft-lbs of energy

"Federal .357 Sig JHP 125 grains - 1,352 fps velocity, 507 ft-lbs. energy, 169 power factor (momentum)
Winchester .40 S&W Silvertip 155 grains - 1,205 fps velocity, 500 ft-lbs. energy, 187 power factor (momentum)"

Well, if you look at the power factor of the two above loads in 357sig and .40, the .40 round is much harsher to shoot than the 357 Sig round, assuming the .40 and .357sig rounds are launching from pistols of similar size and weight.]

Summary

[Using a stronger jig to hold larger amounts of gelatin in place, as some do, can hide pertinent data. The purpose of bullet testing is to see the impact of the bullet in the medium as it happens, as well as view the end results of penetration and bullet expansion. Unlike clamped down gelatin in a lab, the body is not constrained by super strong immovable plates. So designing a jig and gelatin mix which is too strong and too large provides only partial data results and may hide other important facts.]

The 10mm is an excellent all-around auto pistol caliber, from plinking to self defense to hunting. Yet, the smaller and easier to shoot 357 Sig still offers penetration advantages for skilled law enforcement officers similar to the best 10mm ammo. And the 357sig has an excellent balance of size and ease of use for non experts as well.

Both the 10 and 357sig (at least in some loadings) produce excellent shock value (rapid energy transfer into the first 3” – 6” of gelatin), which caused the above mentioned plates to break.

Winchester spent well over a million dollars developing the 357 Sig RA357T design. Is the 357 Sig a wildcat cartridge? I think not. This ammo provides the excellent penetration of the Ranger T, but relatively shallow penetration of the previous USSS issue 9mm 115 gr. +P+ loads. Essentially, the bullet expands very consistently and does not over penetrate. And what makes this bullet stand out is the ability to send a major shock value (rapid energy transfer) into the first 3” – 6” of gelatin, resulting in a severe “pressure spike punch” that exceeded the load capacity of the 1” plywood plates, causing them to break. The 10mm round in question did the exact same thing.

[Agencies that have been using this round for years like it, even after firing millions of rounds. The newer agencies give it high marks. I’ve received emails from law enforcement officers attesting to the satisfaction of using the 357 SIG, along with some of the best shooting they’ve ever done with an auto pistol caliber. I’ve seen the effects of what the 357 SIG does at a practical pistol range. When it’s loaded with low recoil ammo in the 1120 fps range, an amateur can shoot just as fast and accurately as anyone else; yet, the loud boom (low supersonic range) has an interesting psychological effect on the crowd that screams, “Be afraid even if I miss”. Lower velocities below 1000 fps with a 147 grain bullet can of course cut down on blast if so desired. The 357 Sig has been known to gouge metal pepper poppers. The special bottlenecked funnel effect of pushing the 9mm bullet down range can develop a major quick transfer into the first 3 – 6” of media to create a major “pressure spike punch” into the target. The street stats of agencies and my own observation at the range show that the 357 SIG doesn’t care what detractors say. It just works really well. In fact, all the duty calibers do well with one or more excellent loads that are available.]

The ammolab has stated in their forum that the best loads in 9mm, 40 S&W, .357 Sig, .38 Super, 9x23mm, .357 Magnum and .45acp loadings, all perform well. Here’s a list of some preferred loads:

124gr +P 9mm
127gr +P+ 9mm
147gr 9mm
125gr 357 Sig
115 & 125gr .38 Super
125gr 9x23mm
110, 125, & 140gr .357 Magnum
135gr jhp +p & 155gr, 40S&W
165gr jhp .45acp
135gr 10mm jhp +p

(Each of the above loads creates virtually identical temporary and permanent wound cavities.)

I’ll end with just one more paraphrase from the ammolab to confound you:

The 357 SIG is fun to shoot and actually offers advantages over both the .40 and 9mm that neither can match independently.

End of ammolab.com Section

The August 2001 Gun Tests Magazine (Vol X111, #8) has an interesting article on 357 SIG pistols: (http://www.gun-tests.com/pub/13_8/features/4949-1.html). Basically, the authors stated that they are gaining more and more respect for the 357 SIG as are several Law Enforcement Agencies. And they gave a thumbs up ("Buy It" Ratings) for the Glock 31, Glock 32, SIG P229, and SIG P239. If your pistol is not listed, don't worry. They only tested a few Glocks and SIG's.

Discounting wildcat cartridges, the 357 SIG is the first bottlenecked handgun cartridge to hit the mainstream in almost a century. SIG-Saur and Federal worked together to design the 357 SIG cartridge and bring it to market in the summer of 1994. This cartridge has continued to gain converts from all ranks: Citizens, Municipal Police, County Sheriffs, State Troopers, and at the Federal level (the U.S. Secret Service).

A 357 SIG 4" barrel can drive a 124 grain bullet at a very mild, subsonic, standard 9mm velocity average of 995 fps (power factor: 124). Or, you can charge it up to a supersonic velocity average of 1400 fps (power factor: 174), and yet the recoil is still quite manageable. With a 5" barrel, you can expect an increase of another 50 - 100 fps (power factor: 186 or so)!

147 grain bullets can easily be driven between 920 fps and 1244 fps out of a 4” barrel – that’s subsonic, transonic, or supersonic capabilities. I’m the Ghost of 357 SIG Future, since I describe how flexible the 357 SIG really is (reload testing), even though currently, ammo companies tend to mostly produce full power 125 grain rounds.

Let's take a quick quiz. What does SIG stand for?

1.     Sure Isn't Glock

2.     Schweizerische Industrie-Gesellschaft

3.     "SIG"nificantly better

4.     All of the above

5.     None of the above

6.     I don't care

Well, if you guessed that the longest line is usually the correct answer, then you passed. The answer is 2.

Since SIG is an acronym, some people prefer to officially capitalize each letter and some don't, when referring to the 357 SIG cartridge. Many SIG pistol owners simply refer to their pistols as SIG's for short, which can get confusing since there are other pistol manufacturing companies that also make pistols chambered for the 357 SIG cartridge. Glock dropped the SIG part and simply refers to their guns as Glock .357's. Others like to de-emphasize the all-caps SIG, in favor of the more generic 357 Sig. Acronyms go through a natural evolution and the all-caps is often replaced with just capitalizing the first character or whatever.

You might have noticed that I do not use a decimal point in front of 357 SIG. That's because the 357 number refers to having the "external" ballistics of a .357 Magnum, even though the 357 SIG uses a .355 (9mm) bullet. Therefore, I believe not using the decimal point is more accurate. At any rate, don't let this little tirade bother you. Actually, the ideal bullet diameter for the 357 SIG is .3555 to .356 (see item 6 below).

Let's see why the 357 SIG is catching on:

1. Although the 357 SIG continues to catch on, it did not hit the mainstream as dramatically as did its cousin, the .40 S&W. Actually, the 357 SIG Total Count would go up dramatically if one could not only count actual 357 SIG caliber pistols sold, but also include all the after market 357 SIG barrels that people have bought for their .40's. This is one reason why just about every ammo manufacturer makes 357 SIG ammo now, even though the actual 357 SIG caliber pistols sold may not completely justify all the ammo. There are a lot of folks who buy .40 pistols and then buy 357 SIG barrels. And there are folks like me who buy 357 SIG pistols and then buy .40 barrels. In other words, the Pistol Count statistics are skewed and not necessarily representative of the actual facts. And that's simply because the .40 and 357 SIG are so closely linked because of a simple barrel change (see more details in this regard, below).

2. The nominal velocity of a 125 grain bullet from a 3.86" barrel is 1350 fps (169 power factor rating). The full power factory loads from a 3.86" barrel can push the 357 SIG bullet up to 1418 fps (177 power factor rating). A 5" barrel can push a bullet to over 1500 fps (188 power factor rating). Or, a downloaded 357 SIG cartridge can emulate a standard pressure 9mm Luger at 1050 fps (130 power factor rating). The 357 SIG has a wide velocity range to satisfy the various sporting and defense disciplines. And, the compact 357 SIG cartridge can easily fit into small, medium, and full sized tactical/defense pistols.

On the other hand, the 9x23mm Winchester cartridge also easily makes Major Power factors. Yet, because of its long cartridge length, it is by necessity, used in large framed pistols to house it. So while the 9x23mm Winchester is an excellent sport cartridge, it lacks the versatility of the 357 SIG --- See Attachment 4.

3. Demonstrating the superior 357 Sig ability over the 9mm with short barrels: In the 1999 Autopistols Magazine, Chuck Karwin states, "The .357 loads were incredibly efficient in the short sub-compact Glock pistol [3.5" barrel]. From the perspective of an engineer, I suspect the main reasons for this are the bootleneck configuration of the .357 case and the powders giving good load densities, which allow more complete ignition and more efficient burning of the propellant." The 357 SIG is equally happy in short, medium, and long barrels.

4. For those interested in a semiauto that has external ballistics comparable to a 357 Magnum revolver, but is more compact, kicks & flashes less, reloads faster, packs more rounds, and has faster follow up shot capability, the 357 SIG fits the bill.

Although the SAAMI specs from a 357 Magnum test barrel is 1450 fps, a typical 4" 357 Magnum often generates about 1350 fps or so, which happens to be the same velocity as the 357 SIG caliber from a 3.86" barrel. A 5" barreled 357 SIG can push bullets over 1500 fps. An autopistol barrel length measurement also includes the chamber, while a revolver barrel length does not include the chamber --- See Attachment 6.

Some people mistakenly believe that the .357 Magnum has a wider bullet range than the 357 SIG. Well, Dr. .40 and Mr. 357 can handle a range between 60 grains to 180 grains, which pretty much covers what the .357 Magnum can handle. Whether people like it or not, the .40 S&W and the 357 SIG are inexorably linked together in the same pistol. The only thing I will give the .357 Magnum, is that the barrel does not have to be swapped out, which is not a big deal anyway.

5.  A lot of "super velocity" cartridges like the .45 Super, .40 Super , .400 CorBon and the .45 SMC are "proprietary" (from the Latin: property, ownership) cartridges, meaning that certain folks own the rights to each of these cartridges. Not so with the 357 SIG, which SIG-Sauer and Federal made non-proprietary so that any manufacturer can make it without buying rights or paying special fees. Not only that, but the 357 SIG cartridge is also registered with SAAMI, the Sporting Arms And Manufacturer's Institute; www.saami.org. This is another reason why the 357 SIG is gaining popularity.

6. Typically, folks have been using 357 SIG bullets with a diameter of .355 - .3555 (.356 for hard lead) as opposed to the 357 Magnum with its .357 bullets. If other cartridges can be marketed in such a way that a .36 caliber bullet is loaded into a 38 Special cartridge, etc, then a 9mm (.3555) bullet has just as much right to be used in a 357 SIG cartridge :)

For quite awhile, I have believed the bullet diameter range for the .357 SIG to be .355 to .356. You can get a 9mm .355 bullet to work in a 357 SIG case if it is shaped correctly and the correct bullet crimp is used for the type of bullet being used. After doing my own limited testing, I now believe the 357 SIG ideally should use a bullet diameter between .3555 to .356, and not the standard size .355 bullet, if possible. The correct bullet size and shape is a critical step to minimizing bullet setback. A main reason West Coast Bullets and Rainier Bullets work excellently in the 357 SIG caliber is because they happen to measure .3555.

7. Perceived recoil of the 357 SIG varies a great deal, depending on whom you talk to. To me, a standard velocity 125 grain 357 SIG round feels similar to shooting hot rounds in .40 S&W, .45, and +P+ 9mm, and the blast of all these "hot" rounds is somewhat similar to the 357 SIG as well. The power factor ratings between the hottest loads in 357 SIG and .40 S&W are virtually identical. In general, the greater the Power Factor rating, the greater the recoil. Ed Sanow states, "Given pistols of the same weight, action and ergonomics, the felt recoil of the .357 SIG 125-grain JHP is LESS than the .40 S&W 155, COMPARABLE to the .40 S&W 180-grain loads and MORE than the 9mm 115- and 124- grain +P+ and 147-grain loads". Note: The recoil from a light powered 357 SIG round can equal an easy-to-handle standard 9mm Luger round.

8. Given the pressure levels and slide velocities of the .40 S&W and the 357 SIG, you can use the same recoil spring. Some people still like to increase the recoil spring tension an extra 2 - 4 lbs when shooting the 357 SIG. The 357 SIG slide action may even improve the functional reliability of your .40 S&W pistol, although some people subjectively interpret the faster slide (and even a louder noise) as having greater recoil.

9. You get more feeding reliability *insurance* using a bottlenecked cartridge. As long as the magazine is feeding the 357 SIG cartridge correctly, then ramming a 9mm bullet into a larger 10mm chamber opening is a definite advantage that straight walled cases do not have.

Glock engineers actually took advantage of this bottlenecked cartridge when they engineered their .357 Glocks (M31, M32, & M33). As a result, Glock .357 barrels have a fairly tight chamber and a well supported chamber in the 6 o'clock position.

In fact, the Glock 9mm and Glock 357 (both of which use 9mm bullets) are a natural fit for the Glock pistol, because it was originally developed to use 9mm bullets in the first place.

10. You get another advantage with the bottlenecked 357 SIG cartridge. The velocity spreads can often be less than 20 fps, although it depends on the type of powder used.

Accurate Arms Company had this to say about the 357 SIG caliber: "This is without a doubt the most ballistically consistent handgun cartridge we have ever worked with. The standard deviation for every single load developed was less than 10 fps. The average SD was 5 fps. This is impressive for any cartridge but especially so for a handgun. The small bottleneck and high working pressure of the round must both contribute to this amazing consistency..."

The USSS (United States Secret Service) test protocol demonstrated that the 357 SIG was extremely consistent penetrating various media. And Winchester Ranger ammo tests showed virtually flawless consistency regarding penetration and bullet expansion.

11. With the right components, such as using AA#9 powder, the 357 SIG caliber can be virtually impervious to bullet setback catastrophe, making it just as safe or even safer than other duty calibers. If your gun can handle it, then ease the slide forward, so that the round is very gently pushed into the chamber. Then give the rear of the slide a rap, to be sure everything is locked up. This method is used by some Glockers I know and it definitely cuts way down on bullet setback issues. For more information see Factory Ammo Bullet Setback Chart and 357 Safety & Reloading FAQ and AA#9 Bullet Setback Tests

12. How does the 357 Sig compare with the .40 S&W regarding various bullet weights?

The 357 Sig conversion kit is simply a drop-in barrel replacement into a .40 S&W pistol, although, the pistol must be built strong enough to handle the effects of a 40,000 psi as opposed to the .40 S&W's 35,000 psi pressure limits. The 357 Sig and .40 S&W can easily co-exist and be used interchangeably based on application needs.

This is one reason why I consider the .40 S&W and the 357 Sig to be the same gun. There is no "versus" here. It simply depends on your needs.

The following table combines the bullet weights of the 357 Sig & the .40 S&W.

Table Facts:

a. Alliant Power Pistol powder was used for both calibers.

b. 4" barrel length was used for both calibers.

c. The table facts are based on Alliant testing. The Power Pistol velocities for the 357 Sig by Alliant are virtually identical to tests performed by myself and others.

d. Caution: Each powder charge shown in the table is a maximum value.

I found this table very interesting.

a. Notice the natural velocity decrease as you look at the lightest bullets and move down to the heaviest bullets.

b. Look at the velocity differences between the two calibers for the (124 & 135 grain) bullets and the (147 & 150 grain) bullets. If you extrapolate the velocity values of these two groups into the exact same bullet weights, then both calibers have quite similar velocities.

c. Obviously, the 357 Sig caters to the lighter bullets and the .40 S&W caters to the heavier bullets.

d. Notice the Energy values of both calibers. Once again you see a natural decrease in energy as you go from the lightest bullet to the heaviest bullet.

e. Look at the Power Factor values of both calibers. Usually, as the Power Factor increases, the felt recoil also increases. Notice that the Power Factor between the 357 Sig and the .40 S&W are similar. The USPSA Rule Book, 14th Edition (United States Practical Shooting Association branch of the international organization, IPSC) lowered the Major Power Factor from 175 to 165. This makes the pistols easier to control and lowers the cartridge pressures, in general.

I do have a pet peeve with IPSC rules: Even though the 357 Sig is an excellent duty round just like the .40, the 357 Sig is forced to shoot Minor Power. Reason: there is the obsolete arbitrary rule that Major Power must have at least a 10mm size bullet. The new Production Class takes care of this problem a little bit. But because of that stupid rule, 357 Sig will not be popular in IPSC. IDPA is a lot more practical in this regard!

Question: How does the blast of a full power 124 grain 357 Sig round compare to a full power 135 grain .40 S&W round? To me, both of these supersonic pistol rounds are similar, although currently, the 357 Sig has superior penetration and accuracy capabilities in general.

Question: Can you get the .40 S&W to emulate 357 Sig accuracy and ballistic efficiency using the 124/125 grain bullets? Probably not. If anyone does, please let me know. The lightest duty round for the .40 S&W is 135 grains.

Question: Can you get the 135 grain .40 S&W bullet to emulate the full power accuracy of the 357 Sig? Probably not, but sometimes it can get close. If anyone does, please let me know. The mellow 135 grain PDA .40 S&W round appears to penetrate very well, although I have not tested its accuracy against the 357 Sig. Feasibly, a bonded 135 grain .40 S&W bullet could be designed to match the penetration qualities of the 357 Sig, although, matching 357 Sig accuracy is a question mark.

Question: Can you get the 357 Sig to emulate the .40 S&W using 155, 165, and 180 grain bullets? No.

Question: Can you get the 357 Sig to emulate the .40 S&W using 135 & 150 grain bullets? Probably yes.

Question: Can you get the 357 Sig to emulate a 9mm Luger round using 115 grain & 124/125 grain bullets? Yes.

Question: Can you get the .40 S&W to emulate a 9mm Luger round using 115 grain & 124/125 grain bullets? Probably not. But, the Federal 135 PDA and 165 HS .40 S&W cartridges do a relatively good job of it.

Question: Do the Glock 9's and 357's have well supported chambers with better support than the other Glock calibers? Yes.

Question: Can you get the .40 S&W to emulate light 10mm loads? Yes.

I do know the .40 S&W and the 357 Sig calibers complement each other very nicely. As long as a .40 S&W pistol is built strong enough to handle a 40,000 psi cartridge (an extra 5000 psi over the .40 S&W standard) and the magazines can reliably feed 357 Sig ammo, then it is flexible enough to use either the .40 S&W or the 357 Sig, depending on the exact performance characteristics you desire. Do you want big? Do you want small? Do you want fast? Do you want slow? Do you want high energy? Do you want more momentum? Do you want excellent practical accuracy? Do you want excellent bullseye accuracy? Do you want a practical bullet range of 60 to 180 grains? Do you want the flexibility of light to full power loads with each caliber? Folks, this is flexibility.

13. The lighter 357 SIG rounds, as opposed to the heavier .40 S&W rounds, produce more velocity, energy, and whatever else they mysteriously do, making them effective on the streets. The developing 357 SIG database is showing high marks. One famous shooting, as described by Ayoob, stated that a 357 SIG punched through a heavy duty truck cab to kill a gunman, while the .45 from his partner could not do the job. A state trooper, based on his experience, said that the 357 SIG can instantly stop opponents with no fatal wounds. And a city police officer was delighted that the 357 SIG could stop a vicious pit bull with one shot, while previously a pit bull soaked up multiple subsonic 147 grain 9mm rounds before being stopped.

14. The 357 SIG has less torque than the .40 because of using a smaller 9mm bullet. This means less twisting in the hands and a more straight up and down muzzle action, which can help provide better gun handling control. The faster slide action of the 357 SIG can also provide faster follow-up shooting.

15. Another advantage if you carry all day, is that five loaded 357 SIG magazines weigh less than five loaded magazines in .40 S&W and especially .45 ACP.

16. Just about all ammo companies are supporting the 357 SIG. Low priced Blazer ammo runs between $8 - $12 per box, depending on where, when, and how much you buy. Another reason more ammo companies are supporting the 357 SIG is that this cartridge is not proprietary and was registered with SAAMI, thanks to Federal and SIG, so companies do not have to pay special fees. --- See Attachment 3.

You can even buy 357 SIG snap caps now (A-Zoom Ammo Premium Metal Snap-Caps) from www.dillonprecision.com, 800-762-3845.

17. Reloading the 357 SIG cartridge is like loading a small bottlenecked rifle cartridge. For more reloading details, please read my article 357 Safety & Reloading FAQ

18. You can now get slightly stronger +P+ 9mm-like ammo (the 357 SIG) that is within SAAMI specs, unlike the standard 9mm Luger caliber which has reached the end of its development cycle (tongue in cheek). This can be an important point when agencies make pistol bids, and to standardize on the only REAL level of effective 9mm bullet 'velocity' that scores in the over 90% one-shot-stop category. Put another way, the 357 SIG is the most flexible 9mm duty cartridge available. If you like +P+ 9mm performance, the 357 SIG is just more of the same with extra to spare.

9mm working range = standard 9mm ammo, +P 9mm ammo, +P+ 9mm ammo

357SIG working range = standard 9mm ammo, +P 9mm ammo, +P+ 9mm ammo, ++P++ 357 SIG magnum level

From these facts, it's easy to see which caliber is more flexible. And yet the 357 SIG is still within normal SAAMI specification and requires no +P, +P+ warning codes. In fact, if +P 357 Sig ammo is authorized some day, it would move the psi up to around 45,000 psi, which some people have successfully tested without overpressue problems --- depending on components used of course.

Since the 357sig shoots a 9mm bullet, it is pretty much related to the 9mm. Since it's a 9mm magnum round (more powerful than a regular 9mm), marketing wise it's named the 357 Sig, which also puts it into contention with the 125 grain 357 Mag rounds.

WWW.SAAMI.ORG

In general, 357 SIG & 9mm based pistols, including the Glock 9's and 357's, have well supported chambers. The 357 SIG can be loaded for the recoil sensitive, for deep penetration or shallow penetration, for typical pistol blast or very loud and intimidating blast. All of these 357 SIG advantages make the 357 SIG caliber an excellent long term investment. Eventually, I hope to see mild as well as full power 357 Sig ammo on the market. There is already shallow and deep penetrating ammo.

Take a look at the following 357 SIG chart showing 124 grain bullets being driven from MINimum powder charges to MAJOR charges with AA#9 powder (Speer Reloading Manual shows a max charge weight of 14.6; Accurate Arms recommends a maximum of 13.0 grains and a minimum of 11.7 grains based on the components tested in their lab. I would not recommend greater than 13.0 grains with hard jacketed bullets). Note: To put the felt recoil into perspective, the light powered 11.8 charged 357 SIG ammo felt identical to standard factory 9mm ammo:

Glock 31 pistol; 4.5" standard barrel; CED Millennium Chronograph with infra red lighting

As a comparison, here's a 9mm chart, which shows the little cousin of the 357 SIG caliber in action. I used AA#9 powder to drive a 124 grain bullet to maximum speed. The results were surprisingly good, especially since I used mixed brass. As expected, the 9mm top velocity was aprox. 200 fps slower than the 357 SIG (this is generally true if the same length barrel and components for the 9 and 357 Sig are used as much as possible). Now, there is some hot +P+ factory ammo out there that can hold its own very well. The 9mm stats in the following chart show compressed AA#9 powder loadings:

CZ 75 BD 9mm pistol; 4.7" standard barrel; CED Millennium Chronograph with infra red lighting

Here's a quote (not by me) trying to put the 357 SIG in its place:

"Quoted from Tactical Forums http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000432.html. What does the .357 Sig offer which is not already available? Are we missing something? We have not observed any better performance with the .357 Sig than with the better 9mm loads; the better .40 S&W loads appear to offer superior performance compared with the .357 Sig. Buford Boone at the FBI Academy and I have compared our respective test data on the .357 Sig--our results are nearly identical. The best .357 Sig load appears to be the 125gr Gold Dot JHP. In both the FBI testing and our assessment, it offers virtually IDENTICAL performance as the 9 mm 124 gr +P Speer Gold Dot JHP in both bare gelatin and through the various intermediate barriers. Likewise, the 9mm 147 gr Winchester Ranger Talon JHP offers similar terminal performance. The best that can be said of the .357 Sig is that it equals the 9mm in terminal performance, although at the price of less ammunition capacity along with greater recoil, muzzle flash, and wear on the weapon. Both the .40 S&W and .45 ACP make larger holes in the target and therefore have the potential to more rapidly incapacitate an aggressive adversary in a lethal force encounter. In addition, the greater mass of the .40 S&W and .45 ACP bullets offer an improved chance of defeating an intervening obstacle while still having enough penetration to reach the vital organs of an armed opponent. I fully agree with Mr. Boone when he writes that the .357 Sig is, “Not a great or lousy cartridge, just another choice."

Well, all I can say is, "If the 357 Sig is not a great cartridge or a lousy cartridge, then it must be a good cartridge, just like the 9mm, 10mm, .40, .45, 38 Special, & .357 Magnum. That's really excellent news. Thanks for the heads up". ;)

Some folks compare gelatin test results of 9mm Luger ammo and 357 SIG ammo, and as a result some important concepts are being missed. The gelatin test is only part of the equation. You must also look at neural shock from stretch cavity, penetration capabilities, driving heavier 9mm bullets, etc, where the 357 Sig can take advantage of that extra working energy. Humans are more than just an inanimate block of jello. Just because it's easy to concentrate on hard facts of bullet expansion in gelatin and bullet penetration depth, does not mean that we should ignore and/or lower the importance of the more difficult attributes that are contained in the entire firing sequence. Just because you cannot put it into a test tube, does not mean it should be taken lightly or not all.

It's not what the target does to the bullet that counts so much as what the bullet does to the target. Placing too much emphasis on the former and ignoring the latter with the aid of a few cute one sentence intellectual profundities (guestimates), is NOT seeing the whole picture clearly. Both sides of the coin ARE important whether you like it or not.

The 357 SIG cartridge uses the same size pistols as the 9mm and yet can hold more powder than a 9mm case. Thus, the 357 SIG can produce more velocity & energy if certain applications demand it. Very importantly, energy is the ability to do work, and a 357 SIG cartridge can produce more energy than a 9mm period. For example, the 357 SIG cartridge can push 147 grain bullets in a superior fashion than the weaker 9mm cartridge. And frankly, I do not feel under gunned because a Glock 9mm holds 17 rounds and a Glock 357 holds 15. You decide.

The 357 SIG is possibly the most consistent and efficient pistol caliber used on duty today, partly due to its bottlenecked design. This cartridge is especially efficient and powerful out of short pistol barrels ( superior to similar sized 9mm pistols). As one of several proof points, see Accurate Arms Loading Guide, Number Two, in which they stated that the 357 SIG cartridge is without a doubt the most ballistically efficient pistol caliber they have ever tested with a consistent and amazingly low standard deviation. As another proof point look at my AA#9 charts -- and my test cartridges were just cranked out on a Dillon 550 progressive loader, without individually weighing powder charges. The small bottleneck and high working pressure of the 357 Sig round both contribute to this amazing consistency.

I find it amusing when folks compare their hot little 9mm +P+ ammo with the 357 SIG caliber when it comes to speed. Yet, when it comes to pistol longevity and maintenance, they compare standard 9mm ammo with the 357 SIG. I know it’s difficult to believe by some that the 357 SIG can shoot low powered rounds too; I do this all the time to save my hands during 300 - 400 round practice sessions. Along the same line, standard 9mm prices are often quoted instead of +P and +P+ 9mm ammo prices, which are a lot more expensive. Yet one can buy 357 SIG ammo commonly for $8.50 to $12.50 and it’s already +P ammo.

In general, it's a myth that you can shoot the 9mm faster and better than the 357 SIG. Well, I suppose it could be true if one has not been trained to concentrate on the target, front sight and squeezing the trigger firing sequence, and instead is fully anticipating the sound and feeling of the felt recoil which would of course cause flinching problems, even with a 9mm pistol. The following chart (from 2001 Autopistols Magazine) shows that the 357 SIG caliber is quite competitive with double tap and speed drills:

Compact Glock 19; 9mm; 4" barrel

Compact Glock 23; .40S&W; 4" barrel

Compact Glock 32; 357 SIG; 4" barrel

Mike Boyle Performance Chart

Dave Spaulding Performance Chart

Quote: from American Handgunner, May/June 2002, Coptalk, Jim Keefer, the Va. PD's range master, "Our results with the 357SIG have been far superior to what we had with the 9mm P-226 and 147 grain subsonic hollowpoint that we had prior. At first, there was some concern that the 16 inches of gelatin penetration by the 357 SIG would indicate over-penetration on the street, but this has not happened. Every single bullet fired into a suspect has mushroomed and been recovered from the opposite side of the body, or from the suspect's clothing. We've put a million and a half rounds downrange. It's working great." Ayoob added, "Texas troopers speak glowingly of the bullet's 'lightning bolt effect' when it strikes. Virginia troopers told me what impressed them most was instant one-shot stops on armed felons who weren't hit in the A-zone. "

Quote: "When the smoke cleared, we were somewhat surprised at the results. The clear winner was the .357 Glock 31, by more than a 2:1 margin. Frankly, most of us had expected the familiar 9x19 Glock 17 to take the crown. Both total hits and center hits favored the Glock 31 by a commanding advantage." Yearly Glock Autopistols 2001 Magazine; Harris Publications; "On Duty With The .357 Glock 31" by Mike Boyle.

Once again, it's a myth that the 9mm is superior to the 357 Sig in accuracy and speed drills, especially when you take into account that the 357 Sig can be downloaded to feel and act like a standard 9mm round, or supercharged to leave the 9mm in the dust, especially with the heavier 150 grain loads.

I will be the first to admit that the 9mm Luger round is an excellent caliber. The Nine has been around for a century, and there are some good reasons why the 9mm is the universal standard in the world. I would not feel ill prepared with a 9mm pistol, although I would prefer a 4.7" to 5.3" barrel in that caliber. Actually, I admit openly that the 9mm is an excellent part time 357 SIG :)

The 357 SIG has been getting good street stats from agencies, and it has been tested quite a bit in labs. Some of the more well known agencies using the 357 SIG are: Federal Air Marshals, United States Secret Service, and the Texas DPS, to name a few. And some of these agencies using the 357 SIG have already fired rounds totaling in the millions.

I doubt if these agencies would be using the 357 SIG if the over all effect is nothing more than a good 9mm round in a typical 9mm pistol (dah: they'd just use a 9mm pistol instead). On the other hand, 357 SIG folks often use the same reasoning that the 10mm FBI folks originally did, namely that the 10mm has more potential than the .45 and the smaller cased .40 round (ditto comparing the 357 SIG with the 9mm). That reasoning didn't work too well for the health of the 10. But the 357 SIG has the advantage of fitting in 9mm sized pistols and easily swapping barrels with a .40 pistol (magazine & pistol quality permitting). There are even specially made 9mm barrels that can fit in some of the more popular 357 Sig pistols.  So the 357 Sig can shoot three of the best duty calibers: 9mm, .40, and 357 Sig. In fact, the 357 SIG has gone a lot farther than the 10mm ever did (the 10 is a fantastic round, please don't misunderstand me), and the 357 SIG continues to slowly make new inroads and continue expanding in the market, despite all the naysayers.

If you could also count the tens of thousands of 357 SIG aftermarket barrels out there, besides actual factory 357 SIG caliber based pistols sold, it becomes a very significant number. There's a reason why there are so many ammo companies producing 357 SIG ammo now.

One other thing to remember about guns in general, especially the 357 SIG: The smaller and lighter the pistol gets, the more you will feel that recoil. I wouldn't want to shoot 400 rounds of 357 SIG in one session with the little Glock 33. Yet, I love to practice with the G33 in smaller doses because it's an amazing back-up pistol.

What are the pros and cons of the 9? Well, there's a lot of feeble ammo out there. On the other hand, there are at least a few good JHP factory brands out there that have stopping power equivalent to any of the top duty rounds, as long as you can legally use JHP in your area that is. Since the 9mm is a century old now, it is basically fully debugged and there is lots of expertise about this round.

What are the pros and cons of the 357 Sig? Well, There's some crappy, unsafe ammo out there because some ammo companies are apparently still in a learning curve. The short neck of the 357 Sig can be easily compensated for by using a firm taper crimp and possibly a light cannelure groove on high quality plated bullets, or a sealant/glue, or using slower powders like AA#9, or using a .3555 bullet diameter, which all but eliminate bullet setback and over pressure problems.

The 357sig can be downloaded to sound like, look like, smell like, and perform like a standard powered 9mm Luger cartridge. It can also be supercharged beyond the capabilities of the +P+ 9mm Luger cartridge, while remaining within normal SAAMI pressures, something the 9mm Luger is incapable of. Whether ballistics engineers will take advantage of the 357 Sig's potential or not, only time will tell. On the other hand, the 9mm Luger cartridge remains the most powerful, most popular, small duty caliber on the planet.

When I reload 9mm ammo, the bullet does not hold any better than when I reload 357 SIG ammo, regardless of the 357’s shorter neck. In fact, when I performed the thumb pressure test on a weighing scale, both the 9mm and 357 SIG reloads had similar bullet holding capability, which was good by the way. I was actually a little surprised that the 9mm did not get a better “thumb scale rating” than my 357 SIG ammo, all components being equal. I will add that reloading a little bottleneck case like the 357 SIG takes expertise in matching the reloading die setup to the bullet and case type correctly. But really, this is the same for straight wall reloaders, who may be suffering from bullet setback a lot more than they realize. Ammo companies that pump out bulk pistol ammo really need to keep improving their quality standards, especially with the 357 SIG. Like I said, ALL calibers have to be monitored for bullet slippage.

Summary

·        The 9mm in dominant throughout the world in sheer numbers.

·        The 357sig pushes heavier bullets in a superior fashion than the 9mm.

·        The 357sig pushes bullets in a superior fashion than the 9mm out of short barrels.

·        Using the same components, except for the brass, the 357sig is on the average 200 fps faster than the 9mm.

·        The 357sig is more flexible in velocities than the 9mm, from standard 9mm velocities to faster than 9mm velocities.

·        The 357sig can pump more destructive energy into that 12-15 inches of penetration (see above regarding breaking gelatin plates and even knocking gelatin blocks off the table) than other duty calibers, except for the 10mm caliber.

·        Ammo companies have tuned the 9mm and 357sig to penetrate and expand in a similar fashion (see above).

·        Standard 9mm prices are often quoted instead of the more expensive +P and +P+ 9mm ammo. Yet one can buy 357 SIG ammo commonly for $8.50 to $12.50 and it’s already +P ammo.

·        Depending on the platform, 9mm hi-cap magazines can hold 1 or 3 more rounds than the 357sig.

·         Depending on the platform and ammo used, the 357sig can be just about as tame to shoot as the 9mm.

·         If the 9mm uses a steady diet of +P+ ammo, pistol life should be similar to the effects of full power 357sig ammo.

·         The +P+ 9mm decibel sound rating is somewhat similar to the 357sig.

19. The strong brass was constructed to handle a standard 40,000 psi, as opposed to the 35,000 psi SAAMI spec for the 9mm and .40 S&W. The 357 SIG brass is stronger than .40 S&W brass. Even though the 357 SIG looks like nothing but a necked down .40, it's quite different. The 357 SIG case wall and the insides are beefed up to handle more pressure than .40 S&W brass is capable of.

20. The 357 SIG has the option of pushing heavier bullets like the 147/150 grainers, to higher, supersonic velocities than a standard 9mm pistol is able to do (1127-1218 fps from a standard 4" barrel) --- See Attachment 3.

21. The 357 SIG and .40 S&W 135 grain rounds both produce over 500 ft/lbs of energy. But the 357 SIG is clearly ahead if you have application needs using lighter bullets that penetrate well with excellent accuracy and more energy punch --- See Attachments 1 & 2.

22. The 357 SIG has the energy and trajectory of a lighter weight .40 S&W bullet, yet the 357 SIG penetrates like a 180 grain .40 S&W bullet. You get two for the price of one. Ed Sanow stated, "The Glock 31 (4.5" barrel) firing 357 SIG 125-grain JHPs has about the same felt recoil as a Glock 22 (4.5" barrel) firing .40 S&W 180-grain JHPs. With 50 percent more energy, the .357 SIG has better tactical penetration." --- See Attachments 2,3,& 4.

23. An advantage of the 357 SIG over the .40 S&W is that a lot of people have proven that the 357 SIG is inherently accurate, while the .40 S&W is good, but not excellent in this arena in general. --- See Attachment 6.

24. Another 357 SIG advantage is that it's like having a little rifle instead of a pistol. The 357 SIG is accurate out to 100 yards. At 100 yards, using a 3.86" barrel, a 125 grain bullet is still traveling at a nominal velocity of 1080 fps, with an energy of 325 ft/lbs. And it has a trajectory of 0.2" at 25 yards, 0.7" at 50 yards, 1.6" at 75 yards, and 3.1" at 100 yards. Typical defense & sport scenarios don't usually occur at long distance. But it's still nice to know that the 357 SIG has this capability.

The Oct. 2002 edition of "Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement" has an interesting article on a P109 357SIG Carbine with a 16 inch barrel (1 in 16 twist). Ammunition averaged between 1600 and 1700 fps, approximately 300 fps faster than a Glock 31 with a 4.5” barrel. The effect of a Glock 31 on media is impressive. The effect of the 357SIG Carbine is devastating. To contact the firearms maker, see http://kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com The myth that a bullet has to be traveling over 2200 fps in order for energy to be effective in media, is pure bunk in regard to the 357 Sig caliber.

25. Here's some 357 SIG hardware: the SVI/Inifnity 1911 pistols; STI 1911 pistols; 1911 conversion kits; SIG's P226, P239, P229, P229 Sport, & SIGpro SP2340; Taurus Service Auto; Beretta Cougar; Glocks M31, M32, & M33; HK USP Compact 357; Steyr M357; Springfield Armory XD. At the time of this writing, there are at least 16 factory built 357 Sig caliber based pistols on the market. Several barrel companies support this cartridge as well. I've also heard on occasion that some pistol companies are looking at strengthening their .40's and/or improving their magazines to support the 357 SIG. In actuality, the 357 SIG pistol count would skyrocket if it included the thousands and thousands of after market 357 SIG barrels that folks have bought for their .40's.

26. Many U.S. Citizens have adopted the 357 SIG for sporting and/or self defense purposes. Some simply use the 357 SIG because it's a simple drop-in barrel replacement for their beloved .40's.

27. A number of agencies are using the 357 SIG because it's an accurate, flat shooting, easy to handle 9mm magnum with excellent penetration characteristics through barriers. In fact, more and more 357 SIG ammo is hitting the market all the time, to handle various application needs (shallow and deep penetration), including specially made "Police Only" ammo.

I've read more than a couple reports that new recruits and seasoned officers have done some of their best shooting using the 357 SIG.

A Short List of Agencies that issue or have as an option to carry the 357 SIG Cartridge (please send additions and/or corrections via the Feedback form.

Alameda County

Delaware State Police (First to adopt the 357 SIG)

Dallas, Texas Police

Federal Air Marshals

Federal Protective Services (FPS) Special Agents for General Services Administration (GSA) – P226

Keizer Police Department, Oregon

La Porte County Indiana Sheriff's Department

Laurence County Sheriff's Office, Tennessee

Las Vegas Metro Police (allowed use of)

Liberty Twp Police Dept, Ohio

Maine Aroostook County Sheriff's Office

Maine Game Wardens (P226)

Maricopa County [Phoenix] Arizona Sheriff’s Office/MCSO

Montcalm County (Michigan) Sheriff's Office

New Jersey Division of Fish & Game

New Mexico State Police

Niles Police Dept, Ohio

Northwood Police Dept, ND

NC Highway Patrol

NC Wake County Sheriff's Department

NC Wildlife Enforcement Officers

Nueces County Sheriff Department, Texas (Sigpro)

Oakland County Sheriff's Dept, Michigan

Orange Police Dept, CT (sig pro, SP2340 .357)

Orlando PD (plainclothes officers)

Oxford, Mississippi (p2340)

Richmond, Virginia

Rocky Mount Police Dept, Rocky Mount, NC

Springfield, IL

Tennessee Highway Patrol

Texas, DPS

Union County Sheriff's Office, Marysville, Ohio (Glock 31)

United States General Services Administration (GSA) – Office of Inspector General (OIG) Special Agents – P229

United States Secret Service

Virginia State Police

Etc

28. The 357 SIG caliber is recognized in the IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association), which has an edge on 'practical' defense shooting with stock duty/defense guns. The IDPA also uses a more realistic power factor rating for duty cartridges. Unfortunately, the IPSC/USPSA (United States Practical Shooting Association) does not recognize the 357 SIG as a Major Power cartridge as of this writing, even though the streets beg to differ.

29. During most of the 20th century, straight wall cases have been the most popular in the U.S., since people wanted to generally push the biggest diameter bullets possible for the best stopping power. Since bullet and firearms technology has improved so much, there is a new interest in bottlenecked designs. This means that smaller bullets can be pushed at higher velocities to accomplish the same stopping power as the bigger bullets have been doing all along, and do it with more energy shock value. Bottlenecked cartridges have some special advantages of their own.

30. The 357 SIG has sometimes been accused of having too much blast. Well, it depends. 357 SIG blast and flash is certainly less severe than a typical 357 Magnum revolver. Blast and flash can be controlled with various powders, flash inhibitors, and other components. A heavier bullet and/or a slower velocity can lower the noise level.

In actuality, 357 SIG ammo can easily be produced with velocities in the subsonic, transonic, or supersonic ranges (920 fps to over 1400 fps with a 4” barrel). You can have the 357 SIG sound just about any way you want it to. I fired a Ruger .22 pistol, and then I immediately fired a 357SIG pistol with a light powered 357 SIG round, followed immediately by a full powered 357 SIG round. As expected, the .22 was the quietest. The light 357 SIG round was equivalent in sound to a typical "standard" 9mm Luger round. The full power 357 SIG round was the loudest of all, with that typical supersonic cracking sound. The 357 SIG can simply speak with authority if you want it to, and with typical 125 grain factory ammo, it does.

I read an account by an officer who has been in situations of guns being fired in public. He said that in general, people are curious to see what the popping noise is and can sometimes get in the way of official business. Yet when a 357 SIG pistol was fired, everybody hit the ground in fear. A loud voice sometimes serves a purpose.

When I shoot, or when I listen to others shoot "hot" supersonic rounds in, +P 9mm, .40 S&W, or +.45 ACP, the blast sounds fairly similar with that typical loud supersonic cracking sound like a 357 SIG. As far as I'm concerned, all duty calibers are too noisy.

With recent advances in electronic ear protection, it's really a moot point. You can even have electronic ear inserts made. Unless you have just a split second to respond to a threat, use electronic ears with your gun, whether you're a Law Abiding Citizen, or a Law Enforcement Officer. Make it part of your training with easy access to your ear protection. Besides, electronic ears can help you hear normal sounds even better, while muffling out the loud noise. 

Here's a short list of Environmental Noise decibel ratings:

The decibel scale is a logarithmic scale, not a linear one. Each increase of 3 dB corresponds to sound that has twice as much energy (measured in pascals). Each 10 dB increase corresponds to a 10-fold increase in energy.

Loudness is a subjective thing. People might perceive a particular sound to be twice as loud when there is actually a 10-fold increase in energy. Most people cannot perceive differences in loudness of less than 3 dB.

Let's assume you have excellent electronic ear protection with an NRR rating of 29 dB. Let's use the quietest .22 caliber pistol, which has a noise level of 152 dB. Subtracting 29 from 152 still leaves you at a noise level of 123, this is still above the threshold of pain - 120 decibels. Like I said, all the calibers are too noisy.

So why do some of us still have excellent hearing after shooting for so many years? Because, gunfire is a complex, short-lived sound wave, and it doesn't travel as well through hearing protection as pure sustained tones do. The NRR rating on ear protection might actually be higher than the nominal 29 dB rating, in regards to gunfire. Yet, for "continuous" noise, the NRR rating may be reduced by as much as 50% of the nominal 29 dB rating.

So there you have it. Clear as mud.

In summary, the .45 produces less decibels than the 9mm, which produces less decibels than a full power 357 SIG. ALL of these calibers produce decibel ratings that can easily cause severe hearing loss, especially in enclosed environments. I highly recommend using one of the newer electronic ear protection devices. I know millions of people see a lot of pistol and rifle play on TV occurring outside and inside buildings where the good and bad guys don’t wear ear protection; and then they carry on regular conversations afterwards like nothing happened (no hearing loss or ringing ears, etc). Folks, that ain’t the way it is. Protect your ears for the long term. Don’t delude yourself into thinking that your ears are OK if you use a .45. Just ask a lot of old-timers who have broken ear safety rules during their lives. Be safe.

31. Many people have not even begun to tap into the versatility and capability of the new 357 SIG magnum semiauto --- See Attachment 7.

In summary, quoting from Handguns, April 1996:

"However, for the shooter who wants it all (high energy, flat trajectory, high velocity, extreme accuracy, high firepower and deep penetration) in a single cartridge that fits in a concealable, shootable handgun, the 357 SIG is just the ticket."

Attachment 1 

Here is a comparison of Ed Sanow's penetration data comparing the Federal 357 SIG standard round with the Corbon .40 S&W 135 grain round:

Note: The 357 SIG Federal bullet is engineered to not fragment, while the .40 S&W Corbon 135 gr bullet violently expands and fragments.

A number of agencies are buying the 357 SIG for the express purpose of penetrating through car bodies, glass, etc in order to get the job done. A Corbon 135 grain .40 S&W could not do this kind of work; but it's excellent for an open head-on confrontation.

Attachment 2

The April 1996 issue of Handguns had an excellent article about the FBI testing the 357SIG. The same article has been re-published several times in various magazines. Although this article is somewhat dated now, a little birdie told me that the FBI has done some very recent 357 SIG tests and have some very positive feedback concerning this cartridge. I'll keep my eyes and ears open for the results. Let me know if you find out before I do.

The original 357Sig Federal 125 grain JHP with a nominal velocity of 1350 fps, was developed to reach a decent level of penetration, with ample expansion, and to work well after passing through initial barriers such as glass, metal, wood, etc. From my own experience shooting the Sig229 in both 40S&W and 357SIG, the perceived recoil appears to be somewhat similar between the two calibers, which I class as a bit more jolt than a 9mm, but very pleasant to shoot considering the high pressure magnum rounds. This article is based on this original 357 SIG Federal bullet. The author, Dr Topper, received assistance for the development of the article from the FBI Firearms Training Unit; But the opinions in the article belong solely to Dr Topper. Note: I have summarized many areas in the article for the sake of brevity.

The purpose of the FBI tests is to evaluate how ammunition will perform in all situations that agents may find themselves in. These tests were developed and formalized after the famous Miami incident.

The author said that out of the 8 testing categories of the 40 round evaluation, tests 6 and 8 are the acid tests. These two tests involve shooting at lightly clothed gelatin through automobile glass.

Besides the 40-round test, every load is checked for pressure, velocity, and accuracy.

Another important emphasis by the FBI besides penetration, is bullet placement.

The 357SIG performance is equivalent to a 125 grain 357 Magnum with a 2 1/2" to 4" barrel length.

One complaint about the 357 and 9 ammo in similar grain loads, is that they have limited penetration, especially after going through glass. The 357SIG is designed to have controlled expansion and excellent penetration.

The 357SIG held up as advertised. It exceeded 12 inches in all eight tests.

Dr Topper stated: "Average velocity from the SIG229 used in the gelatin tests was 1309 fps, and velocity from the test barrel was 1364 fps. Extreme velocity spread was only 55 fps from the SIG pistol and 47 fps from the test barrel, indicating excellent consistency in performance from both the ammo and the test gun. A 10-shot group from the test pistol averaged just 1.89 inches at 25 yards. The test barrel's group was only 1.14 inches, again indicating excellent performance from both the gun and the cartridge."

The pressure of the 357SIG, 40,000 psi, puts it into the magnum category, which means it can generate a greater felt recoil, especially in smaller, and/or lighter pistols. Since the SIG229 was designed as a magnum semi-auto, recoil is very controllable and it kicks less than a medium weight 3" 357 revolver. It also holds 13 rounds compared to six rounds in a revolver.

The FBI tests showed that the 357SIG round out-performed the 357 Magnum revolver and the very popular 9mm Luger semi-autos.

Comparing the 357SIG with the .40S&W

The author compared the standard 357SIG round, Federal 125 grain JHP, with a .40 S&W round, Hornady 155 grain JHP. The Sig229 was used with the 357SIG round, and a Glock 22 was used by the FBI to test the 40S&W round. Note: the Glock 22 has a barrel roughly 6/10" longer than the Sig229, so the test comparison is slightly flawed.

The results were very close. The Hornady .40 S&W bullet expanded more than the 357SIG bullet did. The SIG pistol performed much more accurately than the Glock 22 at 25 yards, 1.89" as compared to 3.49" from the Glock.

Dr Topper states:

"With respect to performance in gelatin, all rounds from both test loads shed their jackets after penetrating the glass in tests 6 and 8. However, the .357SIG showed better penetration, going an average of 13 inches into the gelatin in test 6 as opposed to 10 inches for the .40. The Federal .357SIG also out-penetrated the Hornady .40 by one to four inches in tests 2, 4, 5 and 7.

"The maximum pressure of the .40 load was 37,400 psi, so one can expect that the .40 will be just about as hard on a gun of similar construction as the .357SIG."

Both the 357SIG and the 40S&W beat the 9mm by a wide margin, as well as having very similar exterior ballistics out to 100 yards.

The author said the results show that the 357SIG has about the same energy of a 155 grain 2nd generation .40 S&W round, along with the penetration capacity of a 180 again .40 S&W hydra-shok.

Dr Topper said, "However, for the shooter who wants it all (high energy, flat trajectory, high velocity, extreme accuracy, high firepower and deep penetration) in a single cartridge that fits in a concealable, shootable handgun, the .357SIG is just the ticket." The author then went on to say that the Federal 125 grain round might have a problem of over-penetration in certain urban environments. So the implication is to use the right kind of ammo for your intended application.

Dr Topper then said, "On the other hand, it would be an excellent caliber for a trail gun, and its effect on javelina and even small whitetails at ranges under 40 yards would be outstanding. If I were living back at my house in Northern Arizona, I imagine that a SIG229 in .357SIG might soon replace both my .357 wheelgun and my .45 Gold Cup as the sidearm I'd carry when out in the backcountry."

FBI Eight Step Test Results: (Penetration in inches)

(357 SIG barrel: 3.86"; .40 S&W barrel: 4.49")

test1: Shooting into bare gelatin at 10 feet.

test2: Uses several layers of clothing over the gelatin at same distance.

test7: Same as test2, except at 20 yards.

test3: Simulates shooting through a automobile door.

test4 & 5: Simulates shooting through common building materials.

test6 & test8: The acid tests: Shooting at lightly clothed gelatin through automobile glass, which is extremely tough on hollow points.

Test6: shooting at gelatin through a piece of glass that is angled 45 degrees to the rear and 15 degrees to the left and simulates an oblique shot at an automobile windshield from the driver's side.

Test8: shooting straight on through a piece of glass that is angled backward at 45 degrees. This simulates a head-on shot at an approaching vehicle.

Attachment 3 

Here is a non-exclusive chart showing several 357 SIG Factory Rounds taken from magazines as listed in the Acknowledgements Section at the end of the 357 SIG: Why the 357 SIG is Catching On:

RBCD Platinum Ammo produces some of the fastest ammo. Here's some 357 SIG loads:

*ExpHP -- Police round only

From 50 feet, the TFSP ammo had 1 - 1.5" groups-- not bad for bullets traveling more than twice the speed of sound! My Glock 31 (4.5” barrel) could only manage 2200 fps with the 60 grain load.

The RBCD Platinum Ammo is designed for instant high-energy transfer, bullet fragmentation, and limited penetration. Energy provides the ability to do work such as disrupt tissue and/or penetrate barriers. These rounds reliably cycle auto pistols and even do it with a moderate felt recoil. Refer to Handguns Magazine, Apr. 2001 for more information on this ammo. RBCD Web Site

As you can see, the 357 SIG doesn't base penetration on just one cartridge brand. And there are some 357 SIG rounds that have mild penetration characteristics and others that have slower, quieter velocities. As the 357 SIG catches on, I'm sure there will be more cartridges coming out to fill various niches. I'd like to see some factory downloaded 357 SIG ammo that equals full power standard 9mm rounds. Specially made "police only" 357 SIG ammo is now available from Winchester.

Attachment 4 

Here is a Comparison of 7 different 9mm cartridge types along with the .357 Magnum cartridge (in order of Wound Area):

Note: A longer 4.5" - 5" barrel Significantly increases the 357 SIG velocity. Some people have recorded velocities over 1500 fps in full sized pistols.  And the 357 SIG can fit into small sub-compact pistols, making it extremely versatile.

Attachment 5

This reloading attachment has been moved to 357 Safety & Reloading FAQ

Attachment 6

Wiley Clapp states (from a SIGarms Brochure):

"The .357 SIG cartridge is a police service or combat/defensive load intended to bring .357 Magnum performance to a high-capacity semiauto pistol.

"As long as you compare 125-grain .357 SIG loads with 125-grain .357 Magnums and keep the barrel lengths roughly comparable, the velocities will be the same, and in fact often favor the .357 SIG. Winchester's [Magnum] 125-grain JHP did not exceed the velocity of the .357 SIG until I went to a full six inches of barrel. Some of the time, 125-grain .357 Magnum JHP's will edge the new SIG round in four inch barrels, but not overwhelmingly so.

"I checked the accuracy of the new cartridge in the P229 by shooting 10-shot groups with the pistol mounted in the Ransom Rest and the targets placed at 25 yards. Four different lots of ammunition were used, including both old and new lots of the federal 125-grain JHP load, a single lot of the Federal 125-grain FMJ load, and one experimental lot of the Speer 125-grain Gold Dots. Accuracy is just plain outstanding. Twelve 10-shot groups, three with each lot of ammunition, averaged 1.99 inches. The best was 1.59 inches, but any gun and cartridge that will do two inches at 25 yards is just fine with me. And by the way, the hands-on shootability of the gun and ammo is excellent --- far better than that of a comparable revolver."

Attachment 7

It's really a moot point to state that the 357 SIG would never have survived if it were not a simple drop-in barrel replacement for .40 S&W pistols, since it can never be proven. Dido for the argument that the 357 SIG is just another money making scheme. And if you must, by all means go ahead and complain about various gun magazine writers if that makes you feel better. Finally, if you're really desperate, go ahead and say the 357 SIG is yet another new version of the old 9mm --- a solution to a non-problem.

But! Let's just look at the 357 SIG facts. To ignore the 357 SIG is to miss the point. A typical compact, 'easy to control' 357 SIG provides excellent, 'standard high velocity', 9mm-magnum-performance and provides an excellent feeding semi-auto (9mm bullet into a 10mm slot) for defense and sport pistols. The 357 SIG can also be downloaded to equal 9mm Luger ammo for the sake of versatility. The 9mm bullet in this new incarnation deserves a lot of Respect. 

The Feb '96 issue of Handguns has a comparison article on the 357 SIG, .40 S&W, 10mm, and the 45acp. Conclusions: "There isn't a lot of difference between popular defensive calibers. Human variables are much more likely to matter than minor differences in recoil and theoretical controllability. Case in point: Jan did his fastest shooting with the 45 auto. Dave Arnold did his slowest. Both Jan and Dave were very impressed by the 357 SIG cartridge. Even though it generated the second highest muzzle energy, [357 SIG: 536 ft/lbs; 10mm: 584 ft/lbs], of the four [guns] we tried, it seemed easily the most pleasant to shoot, and both of us shot it fast and well. We think this cartridge may well be a real 'comer'. Given the inherent feed reliability of its bottlenecked case shape, it may well prove to be the best cartridge of all for combat auto pistols."

Walt Rauch stated in his .357 Glock article, from Autopistols Magazine, "The new .357 cartridge successfully duplicated the performance of the highly touted 125-grain .357 Magnum revolver load in a mid-framed autopistol."

Jan Libourel, reporting on the 357 SIG from Guns & Ammo, stated, "I don't think there's a sidearm/cartridge combination in the world that offers a better level of protection."

In "Handguns", Ed Sanow stated, "The .357 SIG is here to stay."

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Acknowledgments:

"RBCD's Sizzling Hot Platinum Plus Ammunition", by Cpl. Ed Sanow, Handguns, Apr. 2001

"Cop Talk", by Massad Ayoob, American Handgunner, Jul/Aug, 2000

"Getting The Most From The .357 SIG", by Cpl. Ed Sanow, GunWorld, May 2000

"Now hear This!", by Ralph Mroz, Combat Handguns, Sep 1998

"Glock's New .357s!" by Walt Rauch, Glock Autopistols, 1998 Vol. 4 No. 1.

Ed Sanow's 357 SIG article in March '98 Handguns.

"357 SIG: Powerful, Reliable And Going Strong" by Dick Metcalf, Shooting Times, Nov 1997.

"'HOT NINE' Cartridge Showdown: An All-Out Test To Name The Best!" by Dick Metcalf, Hand Gunning, Nov/Dec 1997.

"The 357 SIG: How Good Is It?" by Ed Sanow, Handguns, Jan 1996.

"FBI Tests the 357 SIG" by Dr Martin Topper, Handguns, April 1996.

"Critical Analysis: Inside the .357 SIG" by Charles Petty, Guns, June '96.

Official SIGarms Brochure with a 357 SIG article by Wiley Clapp.

Glock-l Email Group who have provided stimulating critiques.

http://springfieldarmory.com

www.hs2000talk.com

www.glockmeister.com

www.glocktalk.com

www.thefiringline.com

http://www.greent.com

http://www.sigforum.com

http://www.sigarms.com

http://www.gunnerynetwork.com

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Disclaimer: This information is what works for me. I am not responsible for your actions. Always refer to factory firearms instructions and precautions, as well as referring to official reloading manuals when reloading. Use your own common sense. You are responsible for your own actions! General Safety Rules